Park Güell Barcelona: a Tour of Antoni Gaudi’s Utopian Vision
Barcelona’s Park Güell is what happens when a wealthy Catalan industrialist employs the world’s most creative architect to construct paradise on earth.
Surprisingly, Antoni Gaudí came kind of close.
This stunning urban park and its marvelous broken tile mosaic benches is a must when visiting Barcelona.
Let’s take a deeper look to plan you the perfect visit to Park Guell.
What is Park Guell?
At 17 hectares, Park Guell is one of the largest green spaces in Barcelona, and it’s currently a privatized park featuring large gardens and compelling architectual elements.
Park Guell is the size of 13 city blocks and keeps watch over Barcelona from the hills above the Gracia district, offering a magnificent panoramic view of the city and the Mediterranean Sea.
First things first though – who built Park Guell?
Park Guell was conceived in 1900 by wealthy industrialist Eusebi Güell. His intention was to create a lavish, Utopian housing development in the middle of a park using the world’s most cutting edge architecture.
Cue Antoni Gaudi.
The legendary Catalan architect was asked to design 60 luxury homes for a planned community far away from Barcelona’s smoky factories – all with the latest technology and a touch of art.
In the end, the houses didn’t sell (I know, right?) and Park Güell construction was halted in 1914.
With only two homes finished!
Regardless, Park Güell was declared a UNSECO World Heritage Site in 1984 and welcomes 3,000,000 tourists annually.
What to See at Park Guell
Let’s get one thing out of the way first, because this is essential: Park Guell is made up of the Monumental Zone and the Free Zone.
If you’re asking what Park Güell is most famous for, know that everything you’ll see in the postcards is found in the Monumental Zone which requires an entrance ticket – the Free Zone is more of a backyard garden.
The Park Güell Monumental Zone
You’ll see the park hemmed in by a rustic stone wall with its emblematic ceramic medallions bearing the name Park Guell.
There are two trencadís-speckled buildings that look a lot like gingerbread houses from Hanzel and Gretel. They were once the Park Güell porter’s lodge complete with waiting room and telephone booth.
A journey up the Park Güell stairway offers goblin shapes, Catalonian symbols, and the famous Park Guell mosaic dragon: the most famous image of the park.
It’s actually a salamander 😛
Further up the staircase you’ll find the Doric Temple which was intended to be the market of the estate. Its twisted columns give the impression of being on a patio built on tree roots.
Keep walking and you’ll get to the undulating Banc de Trencadis, Park Güell’s famous ceramic benches created by Josep Maria Jujol, one of Gaudi’s closest contemporaries.
Apparently this is the longest bench in the world.
Here you’ll find the massive tile-decorated esplanade and centre-piece of the park called Plaça de la Natura (Nature Square). The view of the city from there is amazing.
In all, how much time does it take to see Park Güell? Expect a full tour to take around 75 minutes.
The Park Güell Free Zone
For those asking if you need tickets to Park Guell, the answer is technically ‘no’ if you consider that the Free Zone takes up 92.1% of the park – so you’ll have a ton of terrain to explore for free.
That said, none of the major things to see at Park Güell are found here.
In general the space is more wild and garden-like similar to Barcelona’s top natural parks.
You’ll find a seemingly endless stream of sculpture-adorned paths, creeping uphill and offering spectacular views of the city.
At this public park you’ll also see some of the Park Güell’s original homes including the famous Gaudí House Museum: it was here that architect Antoni Gaudi lived from 1906-1925.
In 1963 the house was turned into a museum about Gaudi and his life.
💡 Looking to max our your visit? Check out my Park Guell visit tips.
How to Buy Park Guell Tickets
So, is Park Guell worth it?
With a nearly perfect 4.5 star rating across 10,000+ Park Guell reviews it seems most tourists are very comfortable with visiting a UNESCO World Heritage site for the price of a pizza.
Just know that hourly visits are capped so you need to reserve Park Guell dates in advance online:
Park Guell Entrance Fees:
- General ticket: €13.50
- Kids (7-12): €9.33
- 65+: €9.33
- Disabled visitors: €0.00 (with paid accompanying person, €9.33)
- Kids under 7: €0.00
You can grab your skip the line Park Guell tickets using the button below:
Looking to add the Gaudi House Museum to your Park Guell Ticket package? You can get your tickets at Tiqets.
Park Guell Guided Tours in English
You can upgrade your experience with a fantastic Park Guell guided tour in English. This is a 90 minute tour with actual flesh and blood guides who are Gaudi experts.
These Park Guell tours run daily at 12:15 pm and 2:20 pm every day, while a third tour runs in high season at 6:15 pm.
With this tour you’ll skip the lines and have a great Gaudi education at one of the world’s best parks.
Prices: Adults €23.00, Children (3-11) €20.70, Infants (0-2) free.
🧐 | Interested in a Park Guell guided tour? Read Park Guell guided tour reviews from all over the world.
Park Guell Ticket Discounts Using a Tourist Pass
If you’re going to visit both Park Guell and Sagrada Familia I suggest getting a discount tourist pass.
The best pass including Park Guell tickets is the super-handy Barcelona Pass. Not only do you get skip the line tickets to Park Guell and Sagrada Familia but you also get a day pass on the Barcelona Hop on Hop Off Bus.
It also gives you 10% discounts on virtually any other attraction including Casa Batllo, La Pedrera, Camp Nou, flamenco shows, walking tours, nightlife etc.
The whole package is just €86.50.
The cherry on top? They also give you a free Park Guell audio guide.
Unsure? You can read my Barcelona Pass review to see if it’s right for you.
Park Guell Hours 2023
- 1 Jan to 11 Feb 2023: from 9:30 to 17:30 (last entry)
- 12 Feb to 25 Mar 2023: from 9:30 to 18:00 (last entry)
- 26 Mar to 28 Oct 2023: from 9:30 to 19:30 (last entry)
- 29 Oct to 31 Dec 2023: from 9:30 to 17:30 (last entry).
What’s the Best Time to Visit Park Guell?
In my opinion the best time to visit Park Guell is with the morning light so I advise the earlier the better.
Your best bet is getting Park Güell entrance tickets before 9:00 am and showing up about 30 minutes before to walk the free zone. The crowds won’t be any thinner during the day.
After I suggest walking back into the city. It’s downhill. Get a feel for the way locals live by having a carajillo (a shot of espresso with chosen liquor) in a random cafe. Then head to the Gracia district for brunch. You’ll have the whole day ahead of you.
If you just can’t get up then I recommend the later time slots toward closing time.
In summer I would strongly advise against visiting Park Güell between 1:00 pm and 4:00 pm as the sun (and crowds) could take you out!
How to Get to Park Guell
I break down the methods fully in my post on how to get to Park Guell, but here are the main options:
Park Güell Shuttle
01/14/2023: The Park Guell shuttle still has not resumed service post-COVID. I’ll add more info here should it come available.
Starting on April 1st 2019 the city of Barcelona offers a free return shuttle for Monumental Zone ticket holders.
The shuttle runs from Alfons X (L4) metro station during Park Guell opening hours.
The trip to Parc Güell will last 10-15 minutes and run every 7 minutes.
🚌 Coming to Park Guell? Make sure you know how to get around Barcelona on public transport first.
Taxis to Park Güell
Since Park Guell is both out of the way and uphill this is a great chance to take advantage of a €5.00 discount on Spain’s taxi app program: Free Now (formerly MyTaxi).
You’ll save so much time and end up paying only about €5.00 or €6.00 from anywhere central, a great option if you’re traveling in large groups or with kids.
In all, expect to pay about €15.00-20.00 to get up the hill from anywhere central.
For more information see how to sign up with Free Now.
Park Güell by Metro and Bus
- Bus 24 from Passeig de Gracia or Placa Catalunya will get to you right to the gates.
- Bus 92 connects Park Guell to the sea and Sagrada Familia but expect a ten minute walk.
- Metro stops Lesseps or Vallcarca on the green line L3 (15 minute uphill walk).
- With the Bus Turistic. The bus leaves you a short walk from the park.
If you’re still a bit confused on Park Güell directions drop me a line below with a departure point for some custom advice.
How to Get to Park Guell from other Barcelona Attractions
- Sagrada Familia: to get to Park Güell from Sagrada Familia walk to the Pg. de Sant Joan – Còrsega bus stop and grab bus V19. From here it’s about 20 minutes on the bus and you’ll get off at the Ramiro de Maeztu – C N Catalunya stop. It’s about 170 meters from the park entrance.
- Casa Batlló: to get to Park Güell from Casa Batllo exit the house and cross the street to take bus 24 (right outside the Mcdonald’s) and it’ll drop you off right at the park entrance. It’ll take about 35 minutes.
- La Pedrera: to get to Park Guell from Casa Mila take a right on Passeig de Gracia when exiting the house and grab bus 24 right in front of the Gucci shop. The trip right to the entrance takes 30 minutes.
- Camp Nou: to get to Park Guell from Camp Nou take the blue metro line from Badal to Diagonal and then take bus 24 at Passeig de Gracia. It’ll take about 50 minutes.
Related: Is Park Guell Worth It?
Visiting Park Guell Tips
- Book Park Guell tickets online or you may be waiting hours.
- Leave at least 50 minutes to get to Park Güell from the city centre.
- If you’re hungry check out my list of best restaurants near Park Guell.
- Remember: there’s a 30 minute grace period for entry times (e.g 9:00 tickets admitted till 9:30).
- Check out my list of things to do after visiting Park Guell to keep the party going.
- If you’ve booked Park Güell ticket online, head to the west entrance as it’s less crowded.
- Bring appropriate ID if you’ll be taking advantage of any Barcelona discounts (senior, children etc.).
- Bring comfortable shoes if you’re looking to go all the way to the top.
- Visit Park Güell in the evening for more comfortable temperatures and great sunset photos.
- Amenities at Park Güell are overpriced and scarce: take your own food and water for a picnic.
- Shade is at a premium so bring sunscreen in summer.
- Those with limited mobility should arrive via a Barcelona taxi or Bus 24 to avoid uphill walks.
Related: How Many Days Should I Stay in Barcelona?
Park Guell FAQ
What time slots are available for the Monumental Zone?
You can select to enter at :00 or :30 of every hour of the Park Güell opening hours (last entry 1 hour before close).
What happens if I’m late for my time slot at Park Güell?
You have 30 minutes courtesy to be admitted otherwise your tickets won’t be accepted – plan ahead!
Can I cancel or change my Park Güell ticket booking?
No changes or refunds can be made with tickets bought at the official Park Guell website.
For Parc Güell guided tour tickets you may be able to contacting [email protected].
How will I receive my Park Guell tickets?
For both Park Güell general admission and guided tours you’ll receive your tickets via email.
I didn’t receive my Park Guell tickets, what now?
First of all make sure your tickets haven’t been caught in any spam filters. If you still can’t locate the tickets then you can email [email protected].
Can I show my Park Güell ticket on my smart phone or tablet?
I can’t print my Park Güell ticket and I don’t have a smart phone, what now?
Bring a piece of ID (and preferably your reservation #) to the ticket windows to be given your passes.
How long should I spend at Park Güell?
Including 30-45 minutes return travel time plus an hour each for the Monumental Zone and free zone I would leave 3.5 hours minimum.
Can I access Park Guell for free?
Up until 2019, Park Güell workers didn’t arrive to set up ticket barriers at the Calle d’Olot entrance until about 7:45 am. That means it was possible to visit Park Guell for free at this time.
That said, in 2022 there is now a barrier – the Monumental Zone is free at this time only for residents who show ID.
If I haven’t booked my Park Güell tickets online will I get in?
Yes and no. After waiting in potentially long lines you may be assigned a much later time slot or in busy cases be told to come back the next day.
Your best bet for tickets in this case is to buy your Park Guell entrance at the machines at Lesseps or Vallcarca metro stations. Here there are shorter lines and you won’t risk walking uphill for nothing.
Is Park Guell OK for disabled visitors or those with limited mobility?
Disabled visitors may have problems navigating the Monumental Zone due to Park Güell’s many steps and uneven paths. Any special access requirements should be sent to [email protected].
Visiting Park Guell?
Consider me your friend in Barcelona. That means you can ask me any question, no matter how ridiculous and I’m going to answer it in the comments below.
So whether it’s Park Guell visit info or just a place to get a decently priced beer know I’m here for you.
Also don’t be afraid to join the Park Guell discussion by first like the Barcelona Hacks Facebook Page and then joining my group I’m Off to Barcelona – here you can ask any questions, air out grievances, and chat with thousands of Barcelona travelers.
May 16, 2019 at 11:45 pmYour website is so informative! We are lucky to be having a combination of an organized tour and some days alone in Barcelona. I would like some suggestions for our free days. I have poured over your suggestions but would like to refine my own schedule. Our organized tour will include: Las Ramblas through the Gothic Quarters. - Placa de la Cathedral - City tour drive through hilltop Montjuic to see panorama and Olympic Stadium - La Sagrada Familia We arrive on a Wed. morning and don't join our tour till Friday night so we have a chunk of time. Given those parameters I would love other suggestions if you can! Wed: early arrival and no plans(Staying near Las Ramblas) Thurs: I'm thinking we could go to El Born - peoples cathedral, old market and Picasso Museum at night. Fri: Free time till about 4.
May 17, 2019 at 11:28 amHi Michele, Thanks so much for the kind words :) In looking at your itinerary the first thing that pops out to me is that it's missing Park Guell. I would try and fit this in as it's definitely one of the top 3 sights in the city. You could schedule this for your first day in the early afternoon after you've check in and had something to eat etc. Wednesday would be the perfect time to visit as it's one of the least busy days. For Friday morning if you're near La Rambla I'd go have breakfast at the Boqueria Market - I've got instructions on how to go about that in my dedicated article. You could then go check out one of the nearby museums like MACBA, the CCCB, or Palau Guell depending on your tastes. Would fill up the first part of the day nicely. For Thursday that sounds like a very good plan what you have... I would just make sure to try and incorporate a swing down to the old fisherman's village of Barceloneta for some seafood and a stroll along the beach. It's right below El Born so not too hard... that would really round out the trip and a holiday in Barcelona without inhaling that fresh sea air ain't a holiday in my mind! :P Cheers, Ash Thursday
May 17, 2019 at 8:11 pmThank you! It is so good to have a plan! What is the best way to get to the Parc from the city centre- (Gran Via de les Corts Catalanes). I know you listed many options but just not sure which is the most expedient. Also you mentioned that the crowds are lighter on Wed but would you still recommend buying tickets in advance? We will be there this month. If it rains... I guess you just have a rainy walk! The best, michele
May 18, 2019 at 2:16 pmMichele, Gran Via is one of the longest streets in the city so it's hard for me to say... can you give me a specific address? My answer depends on this. As for the tickets it is not only recommended but I would say absolutely necessary to book in advance otherwise the risk is too high of being told to come back later... even another day! They have a capped hourly visitor count and in high season this is met constantly. Regards, Ash
May 18, 2019 at 3:19 pmThanks Ash We will be at the Avenida Palace. Best! Michele
May 19, 2019 at 3:19 pmHi Michele, Great... just walk up to the Passeig de Gracia metro station take the yellow line up to Alfons X. From here there's the free shuttle included if you have tickets, so you won't have to do the uphill walk :) Ash
May 22, 2019 at 4:06 amGot my tickets to the Park! Can't wait! Now I just want to fit in a visit to the Palau de Musica.. All the best! Michele
May 22, 2019 at 12:04 pmGreat to hear Michele! I'd schedule in the Palau for when you plan to be in the Born area as it's right above there, easy walk :)
May 28, 2019 at 6:52 amThanks for the great information! I’m packed and ready!
May 28, 2019 at 8:37 amGreat! Please let me know how you get on :)
May 14, 2019 at 3:35 pmHi! We are traveling to BCN (family of 4 - two kids 9,11) at the end of June. We have Sagrada Familia booked at 9:45 am with your at 10 am and I was thinking about doing Park Güell the same day. Reading your section on Parc Güell has me a bit confused- you mention heat and crowds but advise going between 1 and 4. Is that a typo? When would you suggest we go? I’m not sure the kids can do Sagrada, Batllo and Güell in one day. If you suggest going to Güell later in the day do you have any suggestions how to fill the time in between? Thanks again- your website has been invaluable in our planning
May 15, 2019 at 12:16 pmHi Karen, Wow, you're certainly right about my mistake! I neglected to put the word 'against' after 'advise' and so the meaning of the sentence is the complete opposite... I have corrected it :) I only recommend not going between 1-4 if you don't have other options... is this is your only time to visit it's certainly preferable to not seeing it at all. I always suggest either seeing it first thing in the morning or around sunset for milder temperatures, less crowds, and better lighting for photography. Are you around for another day? You could always see Casa Batllo after Sagrada and save the park for the next day. Doing all three (if you're visiting inside) is doable but with kids and trying to fit in meals, snacks, coffee, and the usual transport hiccups it'll be a bit heavy. Please let me know, Ash
May 20, 2019 at 4:13 pmThanks Ash, I am trying to loosely follow your suggested itinerary and was going to make it a Gaudi “day” - I’m thinking we will do Parc Güell vs Casa Batllo on that day but I’m having some FOMO. We are in Barcelona for 5 days but have a trip to Girona and Montserrat to fit in as well. I figure our first day is a bit of a write off after a night flight with the two kids and checking in, getting sorted.
May 7, 2019 at 2:28 amAsh, I keep seeing combo tickets to Sagrada Familia and gaudi museum. Does that mean it gets you into the monumental zone or just the gaudi museum? And can they book your time this far in advance for the times you want? we will be there August 27 & 28 Thank you Roberta
May 7, 2019 at 11:59 amOh! and as for the dates with Ticketbar (link above) you can book way in advance so not to worry for your August 27th and 28th dates :)
May 7, 2019 at 11:51 amHi Roberta, Unfortunately there are so many combo tickets and things promoting these sites that it's impossible for me to comment without seeing the exact thing you are referring to... can you send me a link? Ash
April 30, 2019 at 11:03 amhi is there free entry before 8 am
April 30, 2019 at 5:30 pmHello Charise, Yes indeed... if you get there around 7:30 you'll have the park almost to yourself before they set everything up :) Ash
April 30, 2019 at 6:26 pmthank you. Is this including the monumental zone?
May 1, 2019 at 10:20 amYes that's what I mean... the Monumental Zone is free
April 17, 2019 at 10:40 pmHello Ash I will be Barcelona for Easter. Can you recommend any reasonable priced eateries near Parc Guell? Thank you Carol
April 18, 2019 at 8:54 amHi Carol, Unfortunately being in a mostly residential neighbourhood you won't find many restaurants around... and if they are they are total tourist traps. I would stay clear of most but if you had to I would go for Bar Delicias or El Jardi de l'Apat. Ash
April 14, 2019 at 9:05 pmHi there! I'm going to Barcelona for my first time ever this June! We just bought Park Guell tickets online from their website. Our ticket slot is from 11:00 - 11:30 on a Wednesday. Knowing that it takes about 35-40 minutes by bus from our hotel to the park, when do you think we should depart for the park? Do you think we'll make our slot if we get there around 10:30 or 10:40? It sounds like the wait times are really long! Thanks so much, Emily
April 15, 2019 at 11:24 amHi Emily, When I refer to long lines and wait times I'm referring to the unfortunate souls who arrive WITHOUT tickets... for the people who have tickets you can pretty much go right in. As such I wouldn't worry about this one bit. Shooting to get there at 10:30/10:40 is recommended though because it'll leave you a small amount of time to make up for any hiccups on the way... and if you're there early you can still go explore the Free Zone. Leaving between 9:45 and 10:00 sounds the best course of action to me. Ash
April 15, 2019 at 2:25 pmThank you!! - Emily
April 15, 2019 at 4:37 pmNo problem! :)
April 10, 2019 at 1:53 amMy wife and I are just now beginning to make our Barcelona plans for the three days we are there prior to a cruise on May 18, and we are thankful for your site. We booked the City Pass today and reserved the Parc for 9 am on the 16th and the Familia for 5 pm that day (earliest time offered). We are staying at the Hilton Diagonal Mar Barcelona. Would you recommend the BCN card also for getting around? We are in the mid-to-late 60's and both have a few orthopedic problems, so extensive hiking won't be able to happen! I may besiege you with questions in the coming weeks!
April 10, 2019 at 12:14 pmAlso keep in mind with scenario one... you can simply just get a T-10 card which is interpersonal and gives you 10 rides for about €10.00 for your extra day or transport.
April 10, 2019 at 12:27 pmThank you very much for your suggestion. We do have the two-day pass. How does one procure the T-10 you mentioned?
April 11, 2019 at 9:42 amYou can get them at any metro or train station at the machines - both cash and card are accepted. The option will be right on the welcome screen, impossible to miss :)
April 10, 2019 at 12:13 pmHi John, No worries about besieging me, that's what I'm here for ;) If you've got the two day Bus Turistic package with the City Pass keep in mind this can be used for your main transport... so I wouldn't recommend getting the Hola BCn transport card in this case. If you've got the 1 day Bus Turistic option then it wouldn't hurt to get the 48 hour Hola BCN card because you're a bit far out and will be requiring a lot of transport. My two cents :) Ash
April 6, 2019 at 4:21 amHI Ash If I am planning to get to the Park at 8:00am for opening do you think it's necessary to buy tickets in advance? I notice the earliest ticket I can buy online is for 9:00am. We are travelling in July. At 8:00am would we be able to just walk up to the counter and pay entrance fee and gain access straight away? Is there much of a difference in the ticket price to do it this way? Thanks so much - Laurie
April 6, 2019 at 5:14 pmHi Laurie, If you're going to go there for 8:00 you might as well go there for 7:00 because it's actually free at this time... there are less crowds... none of the barriers are set up etc. That said, if you want to go at 8 the link I provided only sells from 9:00 onwards but you can get the 8:00 slots here. I would strongly advise against just walking up... it seems an unnecessary risk... it could be that you're told to come back for a later time slot which is never good. Also, in summer it's not unheard of to have entire days sold out. Ash
April 7, 2019 at 7:28 pmFantastic Ash - thanks. I have just booked through ticketbar - seems easier that way. We are staying in El Born (Another fantastic recommendation of yours) and are planning to just uber or taxi to Park Guell for a 8:30 am opening. We are also booked at the Familia on the same day at 12:00 pm and thought that we would walk between. What sites, cafes etc would you recommend we stop off at on the way? - thank you so much. Laurie
April 8, 2019 at 2:38 pmHi Laurie, That's great! Keep in mind Uber no longer operates in the city so you'll have to take the normal city taxis :( That said, if you download the app used with these taxis you can get a €5.00 credit on your first ride... you can find out how in my taking a taxi in Barcelona article. You've left a decent buffer between the two big attractions which is good... honestly I would wander down into the Gracia neighbourhood and check out some of the big squares like Plaça del Sol... having a drink or coffee at Sol Soler there is one of my favourite pasttimes :) Ash
March 24, 2019 at 12:09 amHi Ash, I was planning on taking Bus 24 from Placa Catalunya to Park Guell. Would you recommend getting off at the Trav de Dalt - Torrent de les Flors stop and walk up to the main entrance, or would it be better to get off at the Carretera del Carmel stop and walk to the East Side? I was hoping to explore the monumental zone first. thanks in advance for your advice!
March 24, 2019 at 12:20 pmHi Steve, I've done both approaches and can tell you only that the Trav de Dalt stop involves a bit of an uphill climb through some very ordinary residential area with some touristy shops. That's to say, there isn't much to see on the walk so I don't see why anybody would do it unless they had some specific business there. With the Carretera del Carmel stop you'll be forced to walk through the Free Zone to get across to the Monumental Zone... there's a path that will take you directly there but it would involve 'showing' you much of the Free Zone. If you wanted to leave it completely unexplored and see the Monumental Zone first there's no shame getting off at Trav de Dalt... it's just that on its own it's a bit of an unnecessary hike, in my opinion... your choice! Ash
March 20, 2019 at 11:23 pmHi Ash, I and my husband is visiting Barcelona on 23rd March. And as we started planning our trip, we found you and its been so helpful, you are so informative. We want to experience sunset from Park Guell. Can you please tell me which time slot we should book? Is sunset point of park Guell comes in free zone area? Thanks in advance. Dhwani
March 21, 2019 at 7:18 amHi Dhwani, Thanks so much for your kind words on the blog! I see that the sunset is going to be at 7:06 on March 23rd so I would book the 5:00 pm or 6:00 pm time slot. You'll be able to see it clearly from both the Monumental Zone and the Free Zone. Ash
March 21, 2019 at 11:46 amThanks Ash! Another doubt is that we found three places from where we can see city and sunset- Park Guell, Montjuic castle and Caramel bunker. Out of that we have to choose one, but we cant decide, please help us out. Dhwani
March 21, 2019 at 3:58 pmHi Dhwani, For me the best views are from the Bunkers of Carmel simply because it's the highest point in the city and also because the view is completely unobstructed and it almost feels like you'll be falling off a cliff into the great unknown ;) Ash